Hebraic-Believer Position Paper:
The "Lost" Tribes: Ephraim? Goyim? - Both?
http://tshuvah.weebly.com/hebraic-believer-position-paper-the-lost-tribes-ephraim-goyim---both.html
This issue has become quite a divisive subject over the last few years. But regardless of which side of this issue you take: I do not believe it is, nor should it be elevated to, a point of such contention that it causes Believers to break off fellowship and shun one another over it.
This "dogma" causes division I think, as people are too emotionally attached to their own position(s) to examine it circumspectly. It's kind of like when you find out something that you always thought was true your whole life is false, and it shakes your world view :-)
Let's examine some things that can be shown to be facts....
Israel, the Northern Tribes mostly as a whole were in the Diaspora, and their location was known in the first centuries A.D., (I say: mostly as a whole, as "some" came back, and "some" are shown being in Israel besides Benjamin, Judah, Simeon and Levi later.*[See Notes below]) Their identity was lost; however: I believe it is still represented in greater Israel to a lesser degree. Many are not identified with Israel, but were lost amongst the Goyim/Gentiles.- YHVH ONLY knows who they are for sure. The two sticks are both together today (as no one except the Cohanim know for sure who they are) - and yet the two sticks are shown as still being brought together again later - as the lost come in with the Goyim who come into the Congregation of Messiah, - both in Gentile expression and Messianic-Judaic expression, as grafted into the root of Israel. One could perhaps say then of the "grafted-in" branches: some are wild, and (YHVH knows who's who): some are "natural" that were grafted into (so to speak) the Wild Olive Tree when they went into dispersion, so that they had taken on the identity of the "wild" and not the natural; so that they were cut-off - but have not (in a way) lost their identity as natural, (noting their parents who left of course), but have grown up in the "wild" so to speak.
So far nothing too controversial just basic observation of history and what Scripture plainly says; but then the problems start to arise...
Some say that if you are a Believer and start going to a Messianic Congregation that you HAVE to be of physical descent of the literal children of Israel. - This is not so. While I'm sure there are "SOME" who are physically Israel (YHVH knows who's who) - there are others who are not. Else how could the Goyim/Gentiles of the "wild olive tree" be grafted into Israel during the 1st two centuries A.D. in the first place! And what about the Scripture that talks about the Goyim/Gentiles/Nations bringing their glory into Yerushalayim during the 1000 year reign of Messiah - etc.... Or that as AVRAM believed YHVH (as a Goy/Gentile) and became AVRAHAM and the father of "the Jews" by Covenant through FAITH - so to do the Believing Goyim become children of Believing Avraham! All kinds of doctrines get skewed if ALL people who go to a Messianic Congregation suddenly HAVE to be physical descendants of Israel. Even history and the Talmud and the New Covenant show us that their were two types of GOYIM - (not Israel in Diaspora) - that became Ger and Gar Tzadukim. Those who converted, and those who were "proselytes of the gate": ones who kept Torah, yet did not become circumcised and thus part of Israel in the flesh. That of course addresses conversion, but the point is they were GOYIM. Also, if the wild are really ALL natural, then there would be no point of the darash that Rav Sha'ul/Paul gives and thus no need to identify the wild as "grafted and commonwealth" AFTER they are grafted in - if they're only a re-grafting of the natural who "thought" they were wild! This sounds rather convoluted I must admit, but honestly think this through and I think that it will become clear.
So... what can one say then? - Some in the Root of Israel are Natural that Believed and remained; some are grafted in of the wild Nations/Goyim that hold to a more Gentile expression (as in we see in Corinthians); some are grafted in that are of the wild Nations/Goyim that embrace Torah-Judaism but remain "Gentile" (in the good sense of the word Goyim - as simply meaning: 'Nations') - as we see in: the "Gar Tzadukim" or "Proselytes Of The Gate" as Talmud talks about and the New Covenant notes; and some are grafted in that were amongst the wild that were really natural way back with pysical Israel (these may or may not embrace Torah fully however, depending on how closely they listen to YHVH) - and finally some of this group "MAY" -(and I stress MAY) be led to become circumcised to re-identify with Israel. -[BUT: This must ONLY come about as the Ruach-HaKodesh/(Holy Spirit) leads, and NOT on their own volition. Otherwise they are violating the injunction: "...Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called...." - 1Cor.17:17-24. - Although we do have and example contrary to the rule in Scripture with Timothy. And we also note that Avram, as a Gentile, was specifically told to become circumcised by YHVH, not by man.]
Now, this group needs to also be further broken down into two categories: those who are of "Judah/Jews" who find out that they are Jewish and their parents/grandparents didn't tell them - or didn't even know themselves - (there are been several cases of this that I've seen); - and the second group that "MAY" be of Israel from the dispersion who don't/can't know except from direct revelation from YHVH. Why do I say "direct" revelation? - Because there are those who say that you are automatically of Israel, yet this can be show to be false premise. In this case, the best advice I could give is: MAKE SURE YOU ARE HEARING FROM YHVH! - and not just your own desire to be "natural" Israel, so that your emotions in this matter will not allow you to examine the possibility that you are a Righteous Gentile Believer - a "Gar" Tzadukim" (yet not a literal "Ger") - one who desires to keep Torah, but are grafted-in from the wild, and not specifically "Israel", yet still part of the "Commonwealth of Israel", a child of Avraham, and in the Root of Israel in Messiah Yeshua. Remember, Israel is brought back to the land 'from' the Nations, but Israel is not 'the Nations' - else the whole world would be "Israel". When the Goyim are grafted into Israel, they are "of" Israel, and a child of believing Avraham - but are admonished to fear lest they boast against the Natural Branches. That is one danger one can enter into if one is not circumspect in this "dogma".
So, everyone is right :-) - unless you say that your slant alone is right, then you're probably wrong :-)
...However: A serious problem arises when 2 House teachings are in the extreme that are not constrained by the literal Word of Scripture (which is where some have entered into error) and borders on British-Israelism & Replacement-Theology falsehood. - I've heard some 2 house teachers who I agree basically with the majority of what they say; and then there are others who call themselves 2 house I don't agree with most of what they say. - Discern by the Word - "...yea, let Elohim/God be True, but every man a liar; as it is Written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged." - Rom.3:4b.
The following is an very important article that also gives some circumspection that touches on this subject....
https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=326008353626
Shalom
*Notes:
{via public Email an on: [email protected]}
{...}
Nachmanides discusses these prophecies and distinguishes between them. Just as part of Judah was exiled with the northern tribes so too did some people from the ten tribes remain with Judah. Their descendants are now to be found amongst the present-day Jews. The overwhelming majority of the Ten Tribes however were exiled by the Assyrians and NEVER returned though they are destined to do so. The Ten Tribes (said Nachmanides in ca. 1260 CE) are still in Tserefath (Gaul and its region) and "at the ends of the north."
{...}
They said in the Midrash Seder Olam: Of those who came into the Land in the time of Ezra the whole community together numbered 42,360. The total whose names are recorded however only numbered 30,360. What happened therefore to the missing 12,000? These were those from the other Tribes who came up with Ezra.
{...}
It also appears from the simple meaning of the text, that before the exile of the northern country by Senacherib there were gathered into the cities of Judah people from the neighboring tribes of Menasseh, Ephraim, and Simeon and these then dwelt in the heritage of Judah. Or . This explains what was said concerning King Josiah, "They delivered the money that was brought into the house of God which the Levites that kept the doors had gathered of the hand of Manasseh and Ephraim, and of all the remnant of Israel, and of all Judah and Benjamin" (2-Chronicles 34; 9). Prior to that time in the period King Asa it was written, "And he gathered all Judah and Benjamin, and the strangers with them out of Ephraim and Menasseh, and out of Simeon: for they fell to him out of Israel in abundance when they saw YHVH/The-LORD his God was with him" (2-Chronicles 15; 9).
{...}
Those from the Tribes of Ephraim and Shimeon from Israel that were present (2-Chronicles 35;18) with Judah were they who dwelt in the Land of Judah or perhaps to some degree also those who had dwelt in their own territories adjoining Judah and had fled to Judah. They are referred (in 2 Chronicles 35;18) to in a general sense as "from Israel" and not by their specific tribes since they represented only a small portion of their tribe. These are they who returned under Ezra with the Jews from Babylon. They were not expressly mentioned by their tribes since they were attached to Judah. They all settled in the cities of Judah. There was no Redemption for the Ten Tribes who remained in exile.
{...}
[Another authority however, Tosefot in Arakin 32;a, says that, "from each and every tribe a few returned"]. These few were not enough to be termed a tribe in their own right or even part of a tribe - due to their minority position they were included amongst the two tribes of Judah and Benjamin and dwelt in their cities.
The "Lost" Tribes: Ephraim? Goyim? - Both?
http://tshuvah.weebly.com/hebraic-believer-position-paper-the-lost-tribes-ephraim-goyim---both.html
This issue has become quite a divisive subject over the last few years. But regardless of which side of this issue you take: I do not believe it is, nor should it be elevated to, a point of such contention that it causes Believers to break off fellowship and shun one another over it.
This "dogma" causes division I think, as people are too emotionally attached to their own position(s) to examine it circumspectly. It's kind of like when you find out something that you always thought was true your whole life is false, and it shakes your world view :-)
Let's examine some things that can be shown to be facts....
Israel, the Northern Tribes mostly as a whole were in the Diaspora, and their location was known in the first centuries A.D., (I say: mostly as a whole, as "some" came back, and "some" are shown being in Israel besides Benjamin, Judah, Simeon and Levi later.*[See Notes below]) Their identity was lost; however: I believe it is still represented in greater Israel to a lesser degree. Many are not identified with Israel, but were lost amongst the Goyim/Gentiles.- YHVH ONLY knows who they are for sure. The two sticks are both together today (as no one except the Cohanim know for sure who they are) - and yet the two sticks are shown as still being brought together again later - as the lost come in with the Goyim who come into the Congregation of Messiah, - both in Gentile expression and Messianic-Judaic expression, as grafted into the root of Israel. One could perhaps say then of the "grafted-in" branches: some are wild, and (YHVH knows who's who): some are "natural" that were grafted into (so to speak) the Wild Olive Tree when they went into dispersion, so that they had taken on the identity of the "wild" and not the natural; so that they were cut-off - but have not (in a way) lost their identity as natural, (noting their parents who left of course), but have grown up in the "wild" so to speak.
So far nothing too controversial just basic observation of history and what Scripture plainly says; but then the problems start to arise...
Some say that if you are a Believer and start going to a Messianic Congregation that you HAVE to be of physical descent of the literal children of Israel. - This is not so. While I'm sure there are "SOME" who are physically Israel (YHVH knows who's who) - there are others who are not. Else how could the Goyim/Gentiles of the "wild olive tree" be grafted into Israel during the 1st two centuries A.D. in the first place! And what about the Scripture that talks about the Goyim/Gentiles/Nations bringing their glory into Yerushalayim during the 1000 year reign of Messiah - etc.... Or that as AVRAM believed YHVH (as a Goy/Gentile) and became AVRAHAM and the father of "the Jews" by Covenant through FAITH - so to do the Believing Goyim become children of Believing Avraham! All kinds of doctrines get skewed if ALL people who go to a Messianic Congregation suddenly HAVE to be physical descendants of Israel. Even history and the Talmud and the New Covenant show us that their were two types of GOYIM - (not Israel in Diaspora) - that became Ger and Gar Tzadukim. Those who converted, and those who were "proselytes of the gate": ones who kept Torah, yet did not become circumcised and thus part of Israel in the flesh. That of course addresses conversion, but the point is they were GOYIM. Also, if the wild are really ALL natural, then there would be no point of the darash that Rav Sha'ul/Paul gives and thus no need to identify the wild as "grafted and commonwealth" AFTER they are grafted in - if they're only a re-grafting of the natural who "thought" they were wild! This sounds rather convoluted I must admit, but honestly think this through and I think that it will become clear.
So... what can one say then? - Some in the Root of Israel are Natural that Believed and remained; some are grafted in of the wild Nations/Goyim that hold to a more Gentile expression (as in we see in Corinthians); some are grafted in that are of the wild Nations/Goyim that embrace Torah-Judaism but remain "Gentile" (in the good sense of the word Goyim - as simply meaning: 'Nations') - as we see in: the "Gar Tzadukim" or "Proselytes Of The Gate" as Talmud talks about and the New Covenant notes; and some are grafted in that were amongst the wild that were really natural way back with pysical Israel (these may or may not embrace Torah fully however, depending on how closely they listen to YHVH) - and finally some of this group "MAY" -(and I stress MAY) be led to become circumcised to re-identify with Israel. -[BUT: This must ONLY come about as the Ruach-HaKodesh/(Holy Spirit) leads, and NOT on their own volition. Otherwise they are violating the injunction: "...Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called...." - 1Cor.17:17-24. - Although we do have and example contrary to the rule in Scripture with Timothy. And we also note that Avram, as a Gentile, was specifically told to become circumcised by YHVH, not by man.]
Now, this group needs to also be further broken down into two categories: those who are of "Judah/Jews" who find out that they are Jewish and their parents/grandparents didn't tell them - or didn't even know themselves - (there are been several cases of this that I've seen); - and the second group that "MAY" be of Israel from the dispersion who don't/can't know except from direct revelation from YHVH. Why do I say "direct" revelation? - Because there are those who say that you are automatically of Israel, yet this can be show to be false premise. In this case, the best advice I could give is: MAKE SURE YOU ARE HEARING FROM YHVH! - and not just your own desire to be "natural" Israel, so that your emotions in this matter will not allow you to examine the possibility that you are a Righteous Gentile Believer - a "Gar" Tzadukim" (yet not a literal "Ger") - one who desires to keep Torah, but are grafted-in from the wild, and not specifically "Israel", yet still part of the "Commonwealth of Israel", a child of Avraham, and in the Root of Israel in Messiah Yeshua. Remember, Israel is brought back to the land 'from' the Nations, but Israel is not 'the Nations' - else the whole world would be "Israel". When the Goyim are grafted into Israel, they are "of" Israel, and a child of believing Avraham - but are admonished to fear lest they boast against the Natural Branches. That is one danger one can enter into if one is not circumspect in this "dogma".
So, everyone is right :-) - unless you say that your slant alone is right, then you're probably wrong :-)
...However: A serious problem arises when 2 House teachings are in the extreme that are not constrained by the literal Word of Scripture (which is where some have entered into error) and borders on British-Israelism & Replacement-Theology falsehood. - I've heard some 2 house teachers who I agree basically with the majority of what they say; and then there are others who call themselves 2 house I don't agree with most of what they say. - Discern by the Word - "...yea, let Elohim/God be True, but every man a liar; as it is Written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged." - Rom.3:4b.
The following is an very important article that also gives some circumspection that touches on this subject....
https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=326008353626
Shalom
*Notes:
{via public Email an on: [email protected]}
{...}
Nachmanides discusses these prophecies and distinguishes between them. Just as part of Judah was exiled with the northern tribes so too did some people from the ten tribes remain with Judah. Their descendants are now to be found amongst the present-day Jews. The overwhelming majority of the Ten Tribes however were exiled by the Assyrians and NEVER returned though they are destined to do so. The Ten Tribes (said Nachmanides in ca. 1260 CE) are still in Tserefath (Gaul and its region) and "at the ends of the north."
{...}
They said in the Midrash Seder Olam: Of those who came into the Land in the time of Ezra the whole community together numbered 42,360. The total whose names are recorded however only numbered 30,360. What happened therefore to the missing 12,000? These were those from the other Tribes who came up with Ezra.
{...}
It also appears from the simple meaning of the text, that before the exile of the northern country by Senacherib there were gathered into the cities of Judah people from the neighboring tribes of Menasseh, Ephraim, and Simeon and these then dwelt in the heritage of Judah. Or . This explains what was said concerning King Josiah, "They delivered the money that was brought into the house of God which the Levites that kept the doors had gathered of the hand of Manasseh and Ephraim, and of all the remnant of Israel, and of all Judah and Benjamin" (2-Chronicles 34; 9). Prior to that time in the period King Asa it was written, "And he gathered all Judah and Benjamin, and the strangers with them out of Ephraim and Menasseh, and out of Simeon: for they fell to him out of Israel in abundance when they saw YHVH/The-LORD his God was with him" (2-Chronicles 15; 9).
{...}
Those from the Tribes of Ephraim and Shimeon from Israel that were present (2-Chronicles 35;18) with Judah were they who dwelt in the Land of Judah or perhaps to some degree also those who had dwelt in their own territories adjoining Judah and had fled to Judah. They are referred (in 2 Chronicles 35;18) to in a general sense as "from Israel" and not by their specific tribes since they represented only a small portion of their tribe. These are they who returned under Ezra with the Jews from Babylon. They were not expressly mentioned by their tribes since they were attached to Judah. They all settled in the cities of Judah. There was no Redemption for the Ten Tribes who remained in exile.
{...}
[Another authority however, Tosefot in Arakin 32;a, says that, "from each and every tribe a few returned"]. These few were not enough to be termed a tribe in their own right or even part of a tribe - due to their minority position they were included amongst the two tribes of Judah and Benjamin and dwelt in their cities.
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